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Thread: Paddle Steamer Preservation Society

  1. #1
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    Paddle Steamer Preservation Society

    Just got the latest edition of "Paddle Wheels"

    It really is an excellent journal, considering it is not a commercial publication and its society membership is actually relatively small

    On-line content posted on the website and facebook page for general public consumption is also very good now

    Paul Semple is also an inspiring leader !
    Last edited by tramscape; 06-08-2018 at 12:23.

  2. #2
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    A few comments recently on FB from the south as to how people have quit PSPS because of the reduction in their "offering" in the area

    I thought the point was to join because you liked paddle steamers - whether or not you sailed on them

    Waverley does not come within a million miles of me, let alone have an intensive and varied "offering"

    Should I abandon the organisation, then ?

  3. #3
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    I see in the recently-published and very comprehensive development plan for the PSPS that there is no mention of developing any influence over the policy of WSN or WEL .... just to "encourage and give support to WSN/WEL for Waverley to increase the number of ports and piers visited to help earn additional revenue" .... whatever that support might be

    Otherwise, it is all about helping them ..... and giving them money

    Not much point me going on about anything then as the direction has been set
    Last edited by tramscape; 09-24-2018 at 17:02.

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    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    My train ticket to York has been booked ......

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    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    Excellent meeting !

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    Senior Member kylemore's Avatar
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    Re: Paddle Steamer Preservation Society

    Paddle Steamer Preservation Society Originally Posted by tramscape Paddle Steamer Preservation Society
    Excellent meeting !
    WEL's history then?!Paddle Steamer Preservation Society

  7. #7
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    Re: Paddle Steamer Preservation Society

    Paddle Steamer Preservation Society Originally Posted by kylemore Paddle Steamer Preservation Society
    WEL's history then?!Paddle Steamer Preservation Society

    Let's say that I was able to air my main issues (plus raise another in private) and it appeared that the mood of the chair and the meeting was that there is a debate to be had . I can't see WEL being dismissed though - not that I proposed such a thing !

    I'll send you a p m regarding one interesting contribution from the floor
    Last edited by tramscape; 11-18-2018 at 15:16.

  8. #8
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    I do feel that the PSPS has an excellent Chairman and the future is in good hands - and we will find our role

    I would not wish to dissuade anyone from joining - or lapsed members from returning to the fold !

  9. #9
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    The future of the society could be interesting. I have my views (of course)
    Last edited by tramscape; 11-23-2018 at 14:06.

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    Senior Member DOUG's Avatar
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    Re: Paddle Steamer Preservation Society

    Paddle Steamer Preservation Society Originally Posted by tramscape Paddle Steamer Preservation Society
    The future of the society could be interesting. I have my views (of course)
    Indeed! Undoubtedly there will be challenges ahead but the PSPS can be justifiably proud of its achievements to date in the world of maritime preservation.
    I agree that we are lucky to have such an energetic and passionate Chairman.

  11. #11
    Senior Member kylemore's Avatar
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    Re: Paddle Steamer Preservation Society

    Paddle Steamer Preservation Society Originally Posted by DOUG Paddle Steamer Preservation Society
    Indeed! Undoubtedly there will be challenges ahead but the PSPS can be justifiably proud of its achievements to date in the world of maritime preservation.
    I agree that we are lucky to have such an energetic and passionate Chairman.
    Due in no small part to the original movers and shakers of the 70s - two functioning paddle steamers their legacy!

  12. #12
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    Re: Paddle Steamer Preservation Society

    Paddle Steamer Preservation Society Originally Posted by kylemore Paddle Steamer Preservation Society
    Due in no small part to the original movers and shakers of the 70s - two functioning paddle steamers their legacy!
    Very much so. The Deayton/Quinn edited book in particular makes wonderful reading

    One now has to look at how that spirit can be (re?) captured and channeled into what might work in the 2020s and onwards

  13. #13
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    It is the Council of Management meeting today

    It is interesting to see from the Accounts, which are in the public domain, just how much the costs of governance are (high !) - but it is not only the financial costs, but the costs in terms of time and effort required of the directors/trustees, who of course are all unpaid volunteers. This is exacerbated by the incredibly strict rules on governance and various statutory compliances. Trustees also face the perils of personal liability for issues resulting out of all this

    The difficulty in recruiting trustees, even for tasks miniscule in comparison to those of our Council, is very real, leading to the closure of many local organisations - at least in their established state, in favour of more informal associations where statutory requirements do not apply.

    Even PSPS makes quite a substantial loss on its ordinary activities and its own fund-raising does not cover the costs it expends on its Heritage artefact collection, let alone generate anything to support the paddle steamers themselves. The Accounts show that just about all of that annual shortfall is represented by governance costs.

    Whilst it continues to handle money on its own account, this governance requirement remains
    Last edited by tramscape; 11-24-2018 at 18:33.

  14. #14
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    Tramscape, as you might imagine, has a plan for this - if one is ever required
    Last edited by tramscape; 11-28-2018 at 15:15.

  15. #15
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    The minutes of the 2018 PSPS AGM have now been published into the public domain on the PSPS website

    I get three mentions .....

    I have done my bit, not just be a siren voice bleating into cyberspace

    Those in influence, if they didn't already know before, know my position now !

    I suspect that real debate will happen. Will be interesting
    Last edited by tramscape; 12-03-2018 at 20:13.

  16. #16
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    An AGM is not a place for debate - you can raise an issue and get acknowledgement at best. So few people were prepared to get up and talk ..... but had they done so, not everyone would have been allowed a question

    Where else can people debate things, though ? Certainly doesn't happen at local meetings - and so it is either at the pub afterwards ..... or on social media. If it is on social media it really isn't a debate. If you try to raise something controversial, few are prepared to discuss - and power brokers don't (and to be fair cannot) engage

    So, how does genuine debate get to take place outside the four walls of an established committee ? I wonder
    Last edited by tramscape; 12-04-2018 at 12:19.

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    Senior Member kylemore's Avatar
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    Re: Paddle Steamer Preservation Society

    Paddle Steamer Preservation Society Originally Posted by tramscape Paddle Steamer Preservation Society
    So, how does genuine debate get to take place outside the four walls of an established committee ? I wonder
    Hold a conference where members can put forward motions to be debated and voted upon?

  18. #18
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    Re: Paddle Steamer Preservation Society

    Paddle Steamer Preservation Society Originally Posted by kylemore Paddle Steamer Preservation Society
    Hold a conference where members can put forward motions to be debated and voted upon?
    Before I started going to PSPS meetings, I kind of thought that policy issues might be discussed, but no, it is generally just a film show

    I can see the difficulties though in organising and getting attendance for a "national" debate - and the requirement for issues and proposals to be fully thought through and justified, which is very difficult unless developed over time. There was a questionnaire of members only a few years ago - and that is a decent stab at getting a general view.....but it can only be general unless the questions are much more in number and detail. I love filling in questionnaires if I know that they will actually represent you, but question setters seem to assume we don't like answering long questionnaires, so tend to leave them short and extremely bland (and probably not much use truth be told)

    Just in the small group we had at AGM the immediate problem was apparent (and I acknowledged it immediately). There are as many views as there are people. The current sailing strategy is a fair compromise because many members actually do want Waverley, for example, to sail to every conceivable pier possible and offer a much broader programme

    In a referendum type vote on the issue, I am pretty sure that this general strategy would be approved. Detailed debate, alas, really does have to reside with the experts in committee rooms

    The rest are left to spout on social media. Not what WEL liked a few years back, but what did they expect ?
    Last edited by tramscape; 12-04-2018 at 12:46.

  19. #19
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    The answer really is to ensure, if at all possible, that one of those in the smoke (or steam ?)-filled room is your advocate. Not easy

  20. #20
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    I see that PSPS are looking for a new Independent Financial Examiner

    As it happens there is an "iffy" in my household, checking over various charity accounts on a regular basis. However, the PSPS, being operational in Scotland requires the Iffy to be a member of one of certain institutions, so I regret we cannot be of service

    My plan for PSPS would obviate the need for this (and the need for a finance officer) anyway, and eliminate the costs of £ 20 k and upwards which the society spends annually on governance and accounting.
    Last edited by tramscape; 02-04-2019 at 12:17.

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    Senior Member somewhatfoolish's Avatar
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    Re: Paddle Steamer Preservation Society

    Paddle Steamer Preservation Society Originally Posted by tramscape Paddle Steamer Preservation Society
    I see that PSPS are looking for a new Independent Financial Examiner

    As it happens there is an "iffy" in my household, checking over various charity accounts on a regular basis. However, the PSPS, being operational in Scotland requires the Iffy to be a member of one of certain institutions, so I regret we cannot be of service

    My plan for PSPS would obviate the need for this (and the need for a finance officer) anyway, and eliminate the costs of £ 20 k and upwards which the society spends annually on governance and accounting.
    Presumably the scottish professional body for IFEs allows people to sit exams in exchange for money; why not propose to the PSPS that this person would be willing to fulfill this duty gratis/at a favourable rate if the PSPS met the cost of the exams?

  22. #22
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    Re: Paddle Steamer Preservation Society

    Paddle Steamer Preservation Society Originally Posted by somewhatfoolish Paddle Steamer Preservation Society
    Presumably the scottish professional body for IFEs allows people to sit exams in exchange for money; why not propose to the PSPS that this person would be willing to fulfill this duty gratis/at a favourable rate if the PSPS met the cost of the exams?
    That person is not interested in this

    If it was me, I would work to ensure that the role could be abolished. When I took my last job in work, I said that the mark of success would be if my job was no longer required. Needless to say, once I got the tools, i was very successful ! Life after that became extremely easy.........and the business more efficient

    Business simplification .....(I know I go on about it a lot)
    Last edited by tramscape; 02-05-2019 at 00:06.

  23. #23
    Senior Member somewhatfoolish's Avatar
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    How is the role to be eliminated then?

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    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    Re: Paddle Steamer Preservation Society

    Paddle Steamer Preservation Society Originally Posted by somewhatfoolish Paddle Steamer Preservation Society
    How is the role to be eliminated then?
    I would not wish to discuss the policy on a public forum

    However, let's just say that the "Waverley organisation" already has an accounting function which is not merely looked over by an IFE but subject to a full financial audit
    Last edited by tramscape; 02-06-2019 at 22:22.

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    Senior Member somewhatfoolish's Avatar
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    Is it a legal issue; organisation type A needs statutory X, Y and Z annually, but organisation type B only needs part of Y, all Z but no X required?
    Last edited by somewhatfoolish; 02-07-2019 at 22:42.

  26. #26
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    Re: Paddle Steamer Preservation Society

    Paddle Steamer Preservation Society Originally Posted by somewhatfoolish Paddle Steamer Preservation Society
    Is it a legal issue; organisation type A needs statutory X, Y and Z annually, but organisation type B only needs part of Y, all Z but no X required?
    There is an interesting discussion about this and why PSPS do not consolidate their accounts with WSN even though they are in practice one organisation on the PSPS's "advert". I agree with the procedures adopted so that the smaller operation can operate under less strict legal requirements

    However, the real issue which exercises my mind is not about what is necessary for the organisation as it stands. It is about how the structure can be improved - simplified and cost eliminated, not to mention the time and heartache involved for volunteer officers.

    If you are happy to accept that the world is flat, you are always going to head off eastwards if you want to go to the Far East
    Last edited by tramscape; 02-07-2019 at 23:28.

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