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Thread: Waverley 2018 season

  1. #441
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    I have a big smile on my face any time I am in Poland or Latvia !

    probably it is the distinct lack of trams in the UK which is a major cause of such symptoms. I can sympathise with their plight

    Glasgow could do with a proper tramway system too
    Last edited by tramscape; 09-13-2018 at 15:51.

  2. #442
    Senior Member Marisco's Avatar
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    Re: Waverley 2018 season

    Waverley 2018 season Originally Posted by tramscape Waverley 2018 season
    I have a big smile on my face any time I am in Poland or Latvia !

    probably it is the distinct lack of trams in the UK which is a major cause of such symptoms. I can sympathise with their plight

    Glasgow could do with a proper tramway system too
    I remember riding on the Glasgow Trams on the way to my Grandad & Granma's place in Cardonald - must have been in the early 60s - I remember it be a rather uncomfortable, drafty, noisy experience.

  3. #443
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    Re: Waverley 2018 season

    Waverley 2018 season Originally Posted by Marisco Waverley 2018 season
    I remember riding on the Glasgow Trams on the way to my Grandad & Granma's place in Cardonald - must have been in the early 60s - I remember it be a rather uncomfortable, drafty, noisy experience.
    No doubt would have been back in those days ....

    Glasgow Coronations and even the "Cunarders" were getting pretty old by then and some much older remained ..... but they were pretty luxurious as far as public transport went
    Last edited by tramscape; 09-13-2018 at 19:20.

  4. #444
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    The debate about whether Waverley should sail or not over on FB is quite interesting

    I, of course, have no view on the current situation

    I do, however, believe that a company should advertise very clearly what they can offer and in which circumstances.

    Don't offer the earth - or let it be assumed that the earth is being offered - then cause disappointment !
    Last edited by tramscape; 09-16-2018 at 17:19.

  5. #445
    Senior Member kylemore's Avatar
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    Re: Waverley 2018 season

    Waverley 2018 season Originally Posted by tramscape Waverley 2018 season
    The debate about whether Waverley should sail or not over on FB is quite interesting
    Not only that but some quite controversial statements that border on the libellous.

    I'm glad I don't do Facebook!

  6. #446
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    Re: Waverley 2018 season

    Waverley 2018 season Originally Posted by kylemore Waverley 2018 season
    I'm glad I don't do Facebook!
    Oh, go on ........!

  7. #447
    Senior Member GeoffHamer's Avatar
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    Re: Waverley 2018 season

    Waverley 2018 season Originally Posted by tramscape Waverley 2018 season
    The debate about whether Waverley should sail or not over on FB is quite interesting

    I, of course, have no view on the current situation

    I do, however, believe that a company should advertise very clearly what they can offer and in which circumstances.

    Don't offer the earth - or let it be assumed that the earth is being offered - then cause disappointment !
    Last week I booked for a boat trip with another operator. The day before the trip, I received this e-mail (with X's to hide their identity):

    This is a friendly reminder that your cruise to XXXXXX is tomorrow. It is at this time where, we are starting to check the weather to ensure your trip will be safe and as enjoyable as it can be.
    At 18:00pm the Metoffice will release the shipping forecast for the following 24hrs and based on this information we decide whether the trip will go ahead.
    If your trip is cancelled due to the weather conditions, you will receive another email from us between 18:00pm and 20:00pm tonight. Please look out for this email and your immediate response would be most helpful. We will also attempt to call you, please ensure your phone is turned on.
    If the tour is going ahead, we will not email but you may wish to check the following webpage to ensure your trip will be going ahead.
    Check your cruise status here:
    https://www.XXXXXX/cruise-status



    How does this compare with Waverley Excursions' procedure?

  8. #448
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    Ha ha ! That sounds like it was composed by a real caring human being !

  9. #449
    Senior Member kylemore's Avatar
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    Re: Waverley 2018 season

    Waverley 2018 season Originally Posted by tramscape Waverley 2018 season
    Oh, go on ........!
    No thanks - FB is the work of the Devil - or the CIA whatever!Waverley 2018 season

  10. #450
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    I wouldn't want to be going out in this either

  11. #451
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    New on Waverley's FB page

    We were abandoned at Southampton Railway station and told to make our own way home to Weymouth. There were many elderly and less mobile people with us. No-one from the Waverley was there to guide those less able, and no-one was available at Weymouth railway station when we alighted the train at 23.30pm. Many people had to return to the Pavilion in the pitch dark, having no idea how to get there from the railway station. Please learn from this and allocate staff to look after your paying passengers.

    .... the customer "does not recommend Waverley Excursions"

    No comment !
    Last edited by tramscape; 09-18-2018 at 01:43.

  12. #452
    Senior Member kylemore's Avatar
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    Re: Waverley 2018 season

    Waverley 2018 season Originally Posted by tramscape Waverley 2018 season
    New on Waverley's FB page

    We were abandoned at Southampton Railway station and told to make our own way home to Weymouth. There were many elderly and less mobile people with us. No-one from the Waverley was there to guide those less able, and no-one was available at Weymouth railway station when we alighted the train at 23.30pm. Many people had to return to the Pavilion in the pitch dark, having no idea how to get there from the railway station. Please learn from this and allocate staff to look after your paying passengers.

    .... the customer "does not recommend Waverley Excursions"

    No comment !
    The complete report makes interesting reading.

    Coaches could be arranged for a shuttle to Southampton station but not for a run along the coast to Weymouth? I wonder if that was based on cost - the assumption being that many (most?) passengers would not go through the bother of seeking compensation for train fares, taxis etc.

    And as for "allocate staff to look after your paying customers" - what staff? All the crew are required onboard and the legion of shore based volunteers was dispensed with long ago.

  13. #453
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    Re: Waverley 2018 season

    Waverley 2018 season Originally Posted by kylemore Waverley 2018 season
    And as for "allocate staff to look after your paying customers" - what staff? All the crew are required onboard and the legion of shore based volunteers was dispensed with long ago.
    That's an interesting issue. With the ship not sailing (or at least not with passengers) presumably there is staff aboard who could have accompanied the passengers. Why not? Out of hours ? "Nothing to do with me" attitude ?

    Anyway, the point being is the lack of understanding by many customers (not people like us, of course) why there is no shore-based representaion and infrastructure. It is something they would expect when they have bought an expensive day out

    Although it's not really any better on the Clyde, at least there, less things go wrong and the consequences are not so great. Away from base in areas where more issues can arise and are harder to resolve, the lack of shore-based infrastructure is a major problem

    Another reason why it may not be the best idea to sail in these areas, and definitely not in the run up to the equinox

    Not coming south would horrify most enthusiasts, I know full well - and lead to the inevitable need to close (or drastically reduce) the office-based "infrastructure" in Scotland. Unthinkable for some - sensible for others. Not something WEL would put into their business plan, though, whatever the benefits

    PS - not saying that I side with any particular view on this strategic issue


    Edit - Waverley is seeing a lot of Southampton quayside. news just through that Wednesday is cancelled now. Thursday will be no better by informed accounts - so that is the south coast season over. A complete disaster, I am afraid. When people got a sail, the sail was very nice and the ship itself much admired
    Last edited by tramscape; 09-18-2018 at 16:28.

  14. #454
    Senior Member kylemore's Avatar
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    Re: Waverley 2018 season

    Waverley 2018 season Originally Posted by tramscape Waverley 2018 season
    That's an interesting issue. With the ship not sailing (or at least not with passengers) presumably there is staff aboard who could have accompanied the passengers. Why not? Out of hours ? "Nothing to do with me" attitude ?

    Anyway, the point being is the lack of understanding by many customers (not people like us, of course) why there is no shore-based representaion and infrastructure. It is something they would expect when they have bought an expensive day out

    Although it's not really any better on the Clyde, at least there, less things go wrong and the consequences are not so great. Away from base in areas where more issues can arise and are harder to resolve, the lack of shore-based infrastructure is a major problem

    Another reason why it may not be the best idea to sail in these areas, and definitely not in the run up to the equinox

    Not coming south would horrify most enthusiasts, I know full well - and lead to the inevitable need to close (or drastically reduce) the office-based "infrastructure" in Scotland. Unthinkable for some - sensible for others. Not something WEL would put into their business plan, though, whatever the benefits

    PS - not saying that I side with any particular view on this strategic issue


    Edit - Waverley is seeing a lot of Southampton quayside. news just through that Wednesday is cancelled now. Thursday will be no better by informed accounts - so that is the south coast season over. A complete disaster, I am afraid. When people got a sail, the sail was very nice and the ship itself much admired
    Not much to disagree with there Tramscape.

    I don't understand the preference for "equinoctial" September/October over the relatively benign and long daylight hours May/June. "They" say there's no business to be had then, but they've never really tried.

    As for the "strategic issue" close LQ and do away with the 60k salaries I say!

  15. #455
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    Re: Waverley 2018 season

    Waverley 2018 season Originally Posted by kylemore Waverley 2018 season
    Not much to disagree with there Tramscape.

    I don't understand the preference for "equinoctial" September/October over the relatively benign and long daylight hours May/June. "They" say there's no business to be had then, but they've never really tried.

    As for the "strategic issue" close LQ and do away with the 60k salaries I say!
    Surely NOTHING to disagree with !!!!

    I guess it is all down to the fact that the decision was made to go south only once in the season. If you go down early you might well lose less days, but could you do all three sailing areas properly and be back for the (early) Scottish school holidays ?

    Miss out on some of the holiday period and you have a pretty short summer season on the Clyde and presumably nothing in the western Isles

    With the Clyde being dead after mid to late August and with not much business except perhaps at weekends, she would be tied up in September/October instead of May/June

    Not an easy calculation for the office to make - but they will have the spreadsheets

    The unthinkable strategic about-turn would render this line of enquiry and debate redundant !

  16. #456
    Senior Member kylemore's Avatar
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    Re: Waverley 2018 season

    Waverley 2018 season Originally Posted by tramscape Waverley 2018 season


    The unthinkable strategic about-turn would render this line of enquiry and debate redundant !
    Well yes!

    The PSPS will have to put their foot down sooner or later.

    Enhanced Shieldhall model the way forward.

    75% volunteer/retiree/semi-retiree crew.

    25% Paid professionals.

    Mainly weekend operation on Clyde from mid may to mid sept (sat/sun early and late season & Fri/sat/sun/mon high season), with perhaps a wee jaunt up to Oban for a few days in June. Perhaps a special jaunt to the Bristol Channel every 3 or 4 years or so.

    Little or no "Head Office" function and certainly no 60k salaries - highest paid should be permanent Master and Chief Engineer who would fulfil Marine Superintendent duties off season.

    Well valued and motivated retired/semi-retired Volunteers onshore handling publicity/ website etc perhaps with an office manager on a modest salary, office a cheap rented ex shop in Largs which can double as "front of house".

    Cruises mostly limited to 3-4 hour upper Firth, based mainly Largs, advance booking downplayed, pay on day, keep it simple.

    More in common with a well run preserved railway than with a commercial operation.

    Good will all round!

    We can but dream I suppose.Waverley 2018 season

    P.S. As far as Largs is concerned Calmac must be looking at more modern mainland terminal facilities for the Cumbrae service away from the constrained and congested Largs town centre site. Might it not be possible for Waverley to take over Largs pier as a centre of operations and maintain it as a heritage facility with council help?
    Last edited by kylemore; 09-19-2018 at 12:49.

  17. #457
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    Re: Waverley 2018 season

    Waverley 2018 season Originally Posted by kylemore Waverley 2018 season
    Well yes!

    P.S. As far as Largs is concerned Calmac must be looking at more modern mainland terminal facilities for the Cumbrae service away from the constrained and congested Largs town centre site. Might it not be possible for Waverley to take over Largs pier as a centre of operations and maintain it as a heritage facility with council help?
    THIS .... as they say .............. and a prescription which gets this doctor's approval

    Building blocks for the New World !
    Last edited by tramscape; 09-20-2018 at 11:51.

  18. #458
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    Friday and saturday now cancelled. It's the refund (or credit !) administration which is the job creation scheme now

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    Senior Member kylemore's Avatar
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    Re: Waverley 2018 season

    Waverley 2018 season Originally Posted by tramscape Waverley 2018 season
    Friday and saturday now cancelled. It's the refund (or credit !) administration which is the job creation scheme now
    I genuinely feel sorry for the ordinary front of house staff who are answering the phones and dealing with refunds just now, no doubt with some aggressive callers.

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    Re: Waverley 2018 season

    Waverley 2018 season Originally Posted by kylemore Waverley 2018 season
    I genuinely feel sorry for the ordinary front of house staff who are answering the phones and dealing with refunds just now, no doubt with some aggressive callers.
    Absolutely .......

    ..... and telling Gift Aiders (or anyone who forgot to untick the box) that they can't get £ 17.50 back in cash won't help their plight
    Last edited by tramscape; 09-20-2018 at 16:48.

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    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    Under my plan, office people would not have to put up with this sort of thing

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    Re: Waverley 2018 season

    Mark this day down in history! WEL have actually posted a status update on their Twitter account!

    Check out @PS_Waverley’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/PS_Waverley/stat...389523969?s=09

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

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    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    No, I'm not going to acknowledge this day as the first of a brave new world

    This post is no more than a marketing post - the same as on the FB page but yes, it gives a hint that things have not been going to plan !

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    Senior Member DOUG's Avatar
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    Re: Waverley 2018 season

    Waverley on her way at long last from Southampton to Gravesend this morning having been stormbound for over a week.
    With a good forecast for the rest of the week, hopefully she will be able to rescue the last couple of weeks of the Thames season and earn some much needed revenue.

  25. #465
    Webmaster George Ted's Avatar
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    Paddle Steamer Waverley passing through Tower Bridge on her cruise to Gravesend, Southend and the river Medway. click pic for video


    ...



    When Britain was workshop to the world!
    Grimsby Tide Times

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    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    I see the complaints are flooding in today

    Horrible reviews on the WEL FB page
    Last edited by tramscape; 10-06-2018 at 22:47.

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    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    I'm trying my level best to defend Waverley (and WEL), but it is hard to convince people

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    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    I defend them, but if I wrote even 10% of what is being written about them yesterday and today, just imagine the nasty letters which would be arriving on my doorstep !

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    Re: Waverley 2018 season

    Waverley 2018 season Originally Posted by tramscape Waverley 2018 season
    I defend them, but if I wrote even 10% of what is being written about them yesterday and today, just imagine the nasty letters which would be arriving on my doorstep !
    Goodness knows the arguments have been well rehearsed on here over the last few years!

    In my opinion a secure future for the Waverley lies in an enhanced "Shieldhall" type operation or along the lines that is (note is, not was) envisaged for MOTL.

    Limited area of operation probably based on Largs, between 3 and 4 days a week operation from mid May to mid Sept, mostly short 2-4 hour cruises, a quality coffee,cake and snacks catering offer and lots of enthusiastic volunteers backed up by a core of professionals who have a genuine affection for Waverley and are not just passing through. Oh and a low cost minimal management structure.

    Nurture links - for instance with the Glasgow Nautical College for low cost volunteer training and with Calmac re. Largs.

    The present WEL regime is not regarded with any affection or even respect - the most I ever hear in it's favour is "well at least the boat comes out every year"!Waverley 2018 season

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    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    .... and still they come in

    This one on TA this afternoon has an ending which goes like this

    "I would ask you to refund the money we paid for the trip but I doubt if you will even reply to this email let alone a refund. You can be assured we will not be joining the society"

    A number of people seem to be wanting refunds. Imagine the response they will get !

    Poor Paul Semple - he is doing his level best to drum up membership

    How do we bring about change to this sorry state of affairs ?
    Last edited by tramscape; 10-08-2018 at 17:10.

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    Senior Member billsea's Avatar
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    The amount of passengers they carry a lot of them old and disabled if any thing happened they would struggle to get them off.

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    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    Re: Waverley 2018 season

    Waverley 2018 season Originally Posted by billsea Waverley 2018 season
    The amount of passengers they carry a lot of them old and disabled if any thing happened they would struggle to get them off.
    It depends on how fast Waverley sinks. She has a second skin, watertight compartments .... so won't go down that fast - and MCA are satisfied that the crew can do the necessary

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    Senior Member billsea's Avatar
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    They could reduce their capacity of passengers per trip not pack them on with some of the passengers not getting a seat and having to stand for hours.

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    Re: Waverley 2018 season

    Waverley 2018 season Originally Posted by tramscape Waverley 2018 season
    It depends on how fast Waverley sinks. She has a second skin, watertight compartments .... so won't go down that fast - and MCA are satisfied that the crew can do the necessary
    I wouldnt like to be the skipper with over 700 passengers on board if anything did happen God forbid

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    Re: Waverley 2018 season

    Waverley 2018 season Originally Posted by billsea Waverley 2018 season
    They could reduce their capacity of passengers per trip not pack them on with some of the passengers not getting a seat and having to stand for hours.
    That is the major complaint from the Thames area - especially a Saturday and anytime when it is wet and windy

    They could reduce the number on board, but what is the point ? They need the money or it is not worth going South

    They have to take the money and run - and too many on board are writing on social media that they think the "company" is putting money and profit before passengers' comfort and safety.

    They can't win - except perhaps by getting the Doctor's / Kylemore's prescription ......... but which turkeys vote for Christmas ?

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    Re: Waverley 2018 season

    Waverley 2018 season Originally Posted by billsea Waverley 2018 season
    I wouldnt like to be the skipper with over 700 passengers on board if anything did happen God forbid
    Skippers of the past would have had up to 1250 on board - and I don't think too many lost too much sleep ever

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    Not quite sure why the newsbar is advertising Helensburgh on Saturday and the website is inviting bookings from Helensburgh

    We were led to believe that the pier was closed to her until further notice

  38. #478
    Senior Member kylemore's Avatar
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    Re: Waverley 2018 season

    Waverley 2018 season Originally Posted by tramscape Waverley 2018 season
    Skippers of the past would have had up to 1250 on board - and I don't think too many lost too much sleep ever
    I think the most people I've ever seen boarding a steamer would be in 1976 or 1977 when the Queen Mary swept into Dunoon Pier about 2100 on Cowal Games day and literally hoovered up a crowd that stretched all the way to the Argyll Hotel! Six gangways and probably around 2000 give or take a 100 or so. A beautiful calm evening and the skipper executed a wide slow turn to port south around the Gantocks before heading for Gourock. An unforgettable sight witnessed from the balcony on Dunoon Pier.

    That is why the Clyde steamers had such big capacities - to carry the huge crowds from Craigendoran, Gourock and Wemyss Bay to Dunoon and Rothesay, 30-75 minute crossings. That was their primary purpose - cruising was secondary, the paddlers in particular were never designed to accommodate 700-800 on 8 or even 10 hour marathon cruises!
    Last edited by kylemore; 10-08-2018 at 18:39.

  39. #479
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    Yes, Queen Mary would have been a much better bet for what they are trying to do but there again, people would be rattling around like peas in a drum most of the time now

    They need to concentrate on what the Heritage Lottery Fund will expect from them
    Last edited by tramscape; 10-08-2018 at 19:43.

  40. #480
    Senior Member tramscape's Avatar
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    ..... and still more angry people ( 7 stars "awarded" in the last six reviews)

    It's not as any of this should come as a surprise. It's been the case for years

    Whoever is in charge just doesn't seem to learn or want to learn more likely. WEL need the money to keep their jobs

    Waverley really mustn't do this any more
    Last edited by tramscape; 10-08-2018 at 22:16.

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